Long-Term Disability Employees Lose Deal

Real fair huh, when the pensioners uncertainty is imposed by judges like this.
…and if laws change, too bad again.

Here are some posts I felt were interesting in response to this article.

A corrupt, mismanaged, corporation being able to use laws to its advantage to screw over former employees

employees were bound by their contracts, to which they gave their time & labour – very large parts of their lives. But that didn't guarantee them the 'certainty…& effect' of their employer's commitment. This sort of 'justice' only works one way, it would appear.

The process of letting even governments much less greedy corporations defer pension plan payments has to stop. I just hope the Liberals and NDP have the stones to see their bill through parliament and that it goes far enough to get workers the protection they deserve.

Where were the courts when the executives gave themselves bonuses year after year while they were tossing Canadians out in the cold? Even while creditors were lined up at the door

Don't count on the government of employer for anything!

Everyone got duped by this dud.. Nortel. While I feel for the pensioners, this is just another sad case of a once hallowed organization exposed for the fraud that it is(..was).

The “company” will do whats best for the “company” and thats that. Employees are renewable resources to executives. There will always be another person looking for a job.

Unless you're an executive you have no chance of getting a fair shake

Never ever assume a company will be around to fund your retirement.

Karl Marx, where are you

What I've learned from Nortel:
The law allows companies to leave their pension plans underfunded year after year, and the more trouble they are in the longer it gives them to make up shortfalls [ adding to pensioners risk]
The law says that employees with defined benefit plans are denied the opportunity to contiribute to RRSP's and save for their own retirement.
The law allows special interest groups to drive a company into bankruptcy so that they may profit from this.
The law allows fully insured bondholders to share fully n the company assets so they may make huge profits on doubledipping.
The law says that pensions and other benefits employees have earned over 30 or 40 years have no special status in bankruptcy.
The law allows billions of dollars of companies assets to be syphoned off to benefit foreign creditors whose governments are more aggressive in protecting their rights
The law allows Executives to protect their own outrageous salaries and bonuses while doling nothing for employees.
The law allows lawyers, accounting and financial firms involved in the “bankruptcy business” free reign to make millions gorging on the carcass.
The law [or at least this judge] does not allow employees the right to sue or otherwise use legal means to get what is coming for them.
ISN'T IT TIME THE LAW WAS CHANGED??

The execs walk away with 92 million in bonuses for destroying a company and the employees are happy to get 9 months more health coverage. The judge supports this part of the deal.

…the laws in this land will always come to their aid, while we are left with nothing.

The SAD irony in all this is you have Convicted Serial Killer ( Cliffor Olson) who gets full Pension/benefits and you have Disabled/Senior fighting for their benefits/pension.

At least Obama got the deal signed.
Way to go Obama. Betch the insurance bunch are not happey eh?

The tax payers will fund the Disabled, Pensioners and will be on the hook for BILLIONS while CEO/Lawyers walk out with the LOOT. All Senior manages got double their salary in Bonses in this crisis.
So far over 100+ Million in Bones has been approved in Bankrupcy
OVer 150 Million+ have been paid to Lawyers, Accountants and consultants.
This is a cash grab for all except for the employees and Tax payers.
This is not Justice but Banana Replice in Canada.

what is the difference between Madoff and Nortel again?
oh yeah, both ruined people for life
but no one is going to jail in the Nortel scam……

Corporates win again, judges in the hind pocket. Common folk ruled by laws business writes up and judges rubber stamp any decisions in favour of corporates and the slime that rule over them.

There are bonuses for stupidity and incompetence?

“I just don't understand why people aren't taking to the streets with pitchforks”

Our society is going the way of the Roman Empire, its only a matter of time before the barbarians take us over, and we have only us to blame.

PROTECT THE RICH AT ALL COSTS.
Meanwhile disabled pensioners get a kick in the face.
Not allowed to sue as it will be unfair to the creditors?
Wow, I guess the banks always get theirs first.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/03/…

That just about says it all.

Amen. Said leadership led its (admittedly sporadically gimpy) underlings through some tough times. Remembered but not forgotten to me is, say, that energy savings initiative that removed a full 33.3% of overhead lighting from Nortel cubicles without affecting its dwellers' productivity or throughput – because their leaders never flinched. Savings were then rewarded to those who led by example.

Everything is now chugging right along without all them extemporaneous spare bulbs. End of story.

I remember there was a book on Nortel years ago. This would be a 5 page Part 2.

best quote I liked was “There are bonuses for stupidity and incompetence?”

that sums up this catastrophe.

Ahh…but the lighting was not removed on an even/consistent basis…and probably not from all spaces. The floor I was on in Richardson was spared for quite some time….and then the hardwall offices were done some time later. Want to bet the the 16th floor was never done? They needed the light to figure their how much their bonus would be.

yes.

If I was on disability I'd get out of this country and pitch a tent.
Your ship is bound to come in based on the new refugee plan adopted by the feds
today.
Pay particular heed to the very last line in the story below.
I guess the problem with the Pensioners and LTD people is they have no place to
hide because they are true canadians who have contributed to the economy and the system for years. Sucks to be them.

“The federal government unveiled the first step of its overhaul of Canada's refugee system Monday, announcing it will increase the number of people this country will accept from UN refugee camps around the world.
Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said Canada will accept 2,500 additional UN-selected refugees who have been living in refugee camps and urban slums. That will bring the total number of people who come to Canada each year from overseas camps and slums to 14,500.
“Millions of people have fled violence and persecution to seek refuge outside their home countries and we would like to do more to provide them with protection in Canada,” Kenney said in a statement. “We know that we can't help everyone. But what we can do is introduce balanced reforms to our refugee system that will allow us to expand our refugee resettlement programs to provide protection to more people.”
To achieve the new numbers, the minister announced that the Government-Assisted Refugees Program will be expanded over time to accommodate 500 more refugees, while another 2,000 resettlement places will be added to the Private Sponsorship of Refugees Program.
The changes are part of new legislation Kenney will introduce in the House of Commons on Tuesday and are subject to Parliament's approval. The legislation also includes:
measures to speed up the approval system for applicants seeking asylum.
a new appeals system for those who have been turned down to introduce new evidence in their cases before they are asked to leave the country.
measures to crack down on applicants who are not in need of asylum and are using the refugee system to get into Canada.
The changes also include a boost in funding to the Resettlement Assistance Program, which helps government-sponsored refugees integrate into Canadian society. Funding would jump 20 per cent, from $45 million to $54 million, the first increase in more than 10 years.
“We have been clear that Parliament enacting balanced reforms to our asylum system will be met by more government help for refugees living in desperate circumstances around the world and in urgent need of resettlement,” Kenney said.
There are currently an estimated 10.5 million UN-designated refugees living in camps and urban slums throughout the world, about 100,000 of whom are settled each year in countries with resettlement programs. According to the government, Canada resettles about one in 10 of those refugees.
But critics have long called for an overhaul of a broken system that costs as much as $50,000 per claimant and four-and-a-half years to exhaust the appeals process.
In an interview Sunday with CTV's Question Period, Kenney said his ministry faces a backlog of 60,000 asylum claims, which has led to a 19-month waiting period for a hearing.
The slow-moving legal immigration system attracts false claimants who use the asylum system to “jump the queue” and gain entry into Canada “through the back door,” Kenney said.
According to Kenney, about 58 per cent of asylum claimants are found not to need protection and are either rejected by the Refugee Board, or withdraw their claims.

The LTDer's knew there was no guarantee their plan was just administered by Sun Life, that it was entirely dependent on the companies continued operation to remain solvent, and you were encouraged to take independent coverage from Sun Life on top of that offered by Nortel. It was clearly spelled out

The ones complaining today are just the ones who couldn't be bothered to read what they were signing. And now they're claiming victomhood to try and push their way ahead to the trough ahead of everyone else. Bloody hypocrites.

If you don't have compassion for others, in this case, refugees, how do you expect others to have compassion for you?

''Long-Term Disability Employees Lose Deal''

Na………. it's all fixed. Lobbies and courts are the 2 sides of the same hand. As far as I am concerned, the $3k they decided to give me(without any of my approval) they can shovel it up their asses. This is peanuts compared to the unfair sucking that will be allowed in the pension fund.

Where did you get this info? Are you a Nortel employee? have you read what the LTDers couldn”t be bothered to read?

May be if you were in the same situation as the LTDers you might have a different view point.

This was gone over in quite some detail here a while back. Search the archives.

Yes, I did work for Nortel, and yes, I did purchase the supplementary insurance available from Sun Life on top of what was offered by Nortel alone. I knew a number of people who did the same because we all understood the standard coverage was from Nortel alone. It was made clear in the package literature Sun Life provided.

Now it's very unfortunate the LTDers who didn't purchase the supplemental Sun Life coverage find themselves in the situation they are in today, but that's not Nortel's fault. They made the choice to use Nortel only coverage and take on the risks that entailed.

That they should now expect special compensation over the people that were truly screwed over, pensioners and those receiving no severance, is sickening.

I started with Nortel in 1983, and do not remember having the option to purchase supplemental insurance. It is possible it was available and I was not aware. Had it been, I defiantly would have purchased it.

Don't forget that LTDers, if we live that long, will also one day be pensioners.

Although they are untitled to severance pay, these people will find another job and be able to support themselves even if they loose their severance. LTDers however are not able to go back to work.

I know it is difficult for some people to understand what its like being on disability. All I can say is that if I were given back my health I would be willing to go back to work at half the wages I was receiving when I was forced to go on disability. Being at home suffering all the time and not being able to do anything is not fun.

Yes we will have to agree to Disagree.
At the end of the day the fact remains. Refugeed did not pay into the system and really did not contribute. Pensioners, retirees and LTD recipients did. In regards to your first question I think I made my point. Dirt poor, real claims are “maybe” the exception to the rule but the facts are today that the majority of claims are bogus according to statistics. You have not acknowledged that. I could even go further and say let's not let any of them in any for any reason. That solves the issue of somebody coming in dirt poor. If you can't come in and support yourself without government assistance don't come in at all. The Italians, Scots, Irish and Brits sure didn't have any help when they came in. My how have things changed. It is much easier for anyone from any country to enter canada than ever before and unlike the group I mentioned above they don't even have to integrate into the canadian system and get paid for being “unique” thanks to trudeaus useless charter I say scrap the refugee system. My own personal opinion which is shared by many others. Last time I checked Saudi Arabia had tremendous wealth. You don't see many emmigrating there and having a beer on their patio or bringing their western traditions with them. No point in either of us making any further points on this subject. You are a liberal sympathizer and I am the opposite. We'll never see eye to eye. I am trying to fix what is wrong with Canada. You see no problem and want the status quo.

That's not what many new immigrants to Canada say.
They expect to be given everything. Their customs, traditions, customs and the whole ball of wax. Not to mention what you can get with a refugee claim, even though it may be bogus.

I totally agree. Companies going bankrupt is part of the game. Nothing is risk free in this world. LTDers & pensioners should have seen their payments cut or reduced and take the hit as creditors and ex-Nortel fired with no severance, did. The way it's done now is favoring a group against another. Sickening it is !

It’s impossible to predict who will become disabled at what time.
That’s why having a <a<br>href=”http://www.protectyourincome.c…“>long term disability
insurance as well as good benefits is an absolute must. When I broke my
leg on the job I thought I was going to be in the poor house. Then I found my
service provider, and it was like a breath of fresh air.

</a<br>

Peter Burns was a vocal advocate supporting former Nortel employees' rights to long-term disability benefits. He died over the weekend at the age of 55. CBC
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Uploaded by dianeurquhart on May 23, 2011

Peter Burns wrote an e-mail to Scott Taylor of SunMedia last November apologizing for bitter words he had previously written about Conservative senators. He was frustrated and afraid.

“I was disturbed when I wrote to you yesterday – all I could think about are those people who will die if something isn't done. This is like begging for life, from the gallows. It is sick. I feel persecuted today and I don't know if should I feel that way. Persecution is for characters in books or the movies – not for an ordinary nerd like me. However, I do want to show respect for our senators overall – if we can't believe in the power of the Senate and the prime minister then we can't believe in Canada.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…

Nortel disability advocate Peter Burns dies at 54
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/…
Peter Burns, a former Nortel engineer and key advocate in the struggle to secure benefits for the company's former workers, has died. He was 54.

The Kanata resident, who was on disability from Nortel before his benefits were cut off in January, suffered from complications of spinal cord surgery. He passed away on Saturday while on a weekend trip.

A cause of death has not yet been determined, but friends said there will be an autospy.

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