Hurray, More Time to Restructure!

There's a movement to radically change California government, by getting rid of career politicians and chopping their salaries in half. A group known as Citizens for California Reform wants to make the California legislature a part time time job, just like it was until 1966.
www.onlineuniversalwork.com

Mark I guess you can access these juicy letters ?

http://www.emailwire.com/release/33465-NORTEL-N...

Some dough for execs or lawyers ?

http://www.phoneplusmag.com/hotnews/nortel-sell...

After all these Bankruptcy Protection fiasco is done.....

WILL we ever know how much the Monitor ( E & Y ) bill for their Legal Fees???
and the NOTEL lawyers?

Oh yup... it's only 2 months away! Will they ask for more extensions???

Oh GOD! I can hardly wait! Please GOD hear our humble prayers!!!

I would expect more extensions given the fundamental differences between CCAA law and Chapter-11 law. I highly doubt that US based bondholders and creditors will blindly accept different treatment for Canadian creditors.

OK, Mark. Post something new, already. Even if it's OLD. ;>)

Yeah, I'd like to know if lightbulbs are being reinstalled, badge access is working flawlessly, as usual, and most of all, is Lean Six Sigma being adhered to religiously! I find it strange that Avaya would be looking outside for LSS skills?

http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=811286

Senior Services Process Engineering Manager at Avaya

URL: http://www.avaya.com
Experience:Mid-Senior level
Functions:Strategy/Planning
Industries:Telecommunications
Posted:January 26, 2010

• Senior, experienced executive... - yup
• Proven ability to leverage.... sure
• Responsible for championing Lean Six Sigma ... can do
• Provide leadership... whatever.. wait!.. strategic process improvement... based ... Lean Six Sigma expert-level skills....experience (been there, done that)

"Been there, done that" has been Nortel's inofficial slogan for a while now. Everytime it was tucked into a financial MRI and the results came back "positive" (which is actually a "negative" thing, see?) the brass poo-pooed: "Been there, done that, positively"

•... increase process speed, eliminate waste, reduce variation and improve customer satisfaction

Ship all the junk to China, invariably, but positively, and fast. Next.

• Ability to work in a fast-paced, sometimes ambiguous environment

If Nortellians have experience with anything, its an ambiguous environment.

You applying? ;>)

Piece o' cake - the lightbulbs, that is

poot !
blaaaaaap !
glurgh !

MC

Got to go to VA and collect my $4 lottery winnings. Hey, does that mean I'm no longer bankrupt? Should I buy NRTLQ.PK? ;>)

you can get over 100 shares or you can buy lottery tickets instead where the odds are exponentially greater =)

So much for working in the shareholder and employees interests
zero stock 99.9% later and even cut severances/pensions before looting the corpse... forced inquiry... etc...

Who can even trust these masters of deceit and delay on what they claim they owe with their stellar accounting following the largest fraud in Canada

Nothing left... Nortel gone....no one to answer questions...
Canada's Enron/Worldcom is all gone, swept under rug in fraud heaven North of the 49th parallel...

Liquidating with legal fees, bonuses, and ex board members law firm defending ex CEO fired for cause against largest fraud in Canada, etc., a joke...mockery of our system and regulators, Fraud pays in Canada, hard to prove and if they do there are little to no penalties vs. the USA where they staple ones posterior to the wall for lies for massive theft to ruin many thousands. Not here.

One Lesson from this, don't buy stock in Canadian Companies.

At least in the US some go to jail. No one will pay for this. Z and Strangler should be locked up for their lies.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Nortel+wa...

January 30, 2010

By the time this is over, lawyers, accountants and other professionals will have submitted more than $250 million in bills, which are paid in full before creditors receive anything. (All figures U.S.).

Creditors in Canada alone are represented by more than 80 law firms.

The total value of claims submitted by U.S. and Canadian creditors approached $40 billion last autumn and has almost certainly increased. The sum available to satisfy these claims will be a relatively piddling $5 billion or so
This suggests creditors will receive little more than 12 cents for every dollar owed to them. Fortunately, that's not how the process works.
In fact, the $40 billion in demands is a vastly inflated figure, pumped up by creditors who have filed the same claim in several Nortel subsidiaries to increase the odds of receiving something.

A more realistic estimate is ...Nortel reckoned it owed nearly $7 billion to creditors globally.

Nortel's bonds are trading between 70 and 73 cents on the dollar— roughly the same ratio implied by dividing $5 billion in projected proceeds by $7 billion worth of claims.

The creditors most concerned are some 19,000 Canadian pensioners,
The source of their worry can be found in a 67/8-per-cent Nortel bond issued in 1993. It's the only one secured against Nortel assets in Canada alone. And it's been trading at roughly 30 cents on the dollar. This points to strong pessimism about the amounts that will become available.

Nortel's U.S. subsidiary earned the right to file a $2.1-billion claim against the Canadian Nortel estate. Such a claim would substantially dilute the amount available to Canadian creditors.

They are ably represented but the odds seem long. In theory, Canadian creditors should receive the same settlement as other Nortel creditors — 60, 70 cents per dollar owed or whatever the final ratio proves to be. But only if their lawyers can establish that the spoils should be divided globally.

Negotiations over precisely this point have been taking place for months between the main creditor groups in Canada, U.S. and Britain. But a settlement doesn't appear close.

"There is no answer to that question as yet,

The creditors most concerned are some 19,000 Canadian pensioners, thousands more on long-term disability and hundreds of suppliers.

The source of their worry can be found in a 67/8-per-cent Nortel bond issued in 1993. It's the only one secured against Nortel assets in Canada alone. And it's been trading at roughly 30 cents on the dollar. This points to strong pessimism about the amounts that will become available.

According to claims by its creditors: $39.3 billion
In $U.S. as of last autumn. Includes many duplicate claims.
According to Nortel: $6.92 billion

Nortel says the amount could be 'subject to future adjustments.'

________________________________________

Also:
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c...

On January 21, 2010, a claim in the amount of $2 billion dollars by Nortel Networks Inc, an American affiliate of Nortel Canada, was approved and accepted against Nortel Canada

Nortel Canada will now proceed to close pending sales and to realize on remaining assets. Mr Justice Morawetz has indicated that he wants to see distribution to creditors. But stakeholders acknowledge that there is much to be done before creditors will see any money, including a multi-national determination as to how to allocate proceeds of sale on the various worldwide fully-integrated Nortel businesses.

The Court of Appeal rejected the union’s argument that Nortel’s obligation to make payments to former employees

Facebook has an "Ex Nortel" page to peruse...

Category: Business Companies
Description: Group for Ex Nortel Employees, Contractors, etc
Privacy type: Open All content is public
1,990 members


When and what were the first posts made... lemme see:

Nick Phillips Only about 70000 more to go if you only look at layoffs! :)
07 April 2007 at 08:27 · Report

Cathy Vu 20 members and growing. Woohoo!
06 April 2007 at 11:05 · Report

Nick Phillips Ha! Good group, should be lots and lots of us in here :)
06 February 2007 at 14:28 · Report


http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v35...

In response to ...protosphere

Actually the INCOME TRUST UNITS in the oil and gas came down due to two reasons..#1 the Canadian Government walked in with a surprise anouncement and DOUBLE TAXED the Income trust units....after the LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES said they WOULD NOT touch them before the election was called .On Holloween Night only a few months after the Conservatives took office(Trick or Treat) up to 75% of the dividend was redirected to Ottawa (Crooks?) #2 oil prices came down. You see what the Government failed to mention on the "NEWS" was that all dividends are taxable at the full margin , so up to 50% of the top tax payers dividend was already going to REVENUE Canada. Then they slapped another 31% .... (and not the corporate 21%) YOUR MONEY INVESTED AND THE GOVERNMENT STOLE almost all of your income !! PMT.UN went from $24 per share to $3 ... because who would invest in a Trust Unit that pays most of its income to the Government? Pitty the guy who bought at prices higher , another case of the Government helping Canadians! ...CROOKS AND PROUD OF IT ! And where does this money go ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBSdBDeucU

I had no idea.
Thanks for your brilliant and enlightening post!

Banks lend and make trillions with compound interest in what they print from thin air while holding only $4 Billion in reserves strikes me as profoundly astounding, and almost no one knows about it! Holy smokes! Almost sounds illegal.. wait, it is.

Sounds like a pyramid promissory note system or as the commentator on this YouTube video called it... outright "fraud" if everyone came knocking at their door asking for the money back all at once. They would not have the trillions to pay on what they lent to profit.

Also astounding is our debt which is over 90% compound interest.

Something is wrong excusing macroeconomic policy on the basis that its the best model we have, one that works less times than it does. Perhaps as we modernize we might strive for change here too, as a very small few percent also control /own the majority of wealth.

Interesting stuff! Very interesting , especially when we have enough natural resources to make every man, woman, and child on this earth a multimillionaire many times over. Tell me we can't possibly be this dumb to circumvent the obvious or that crooks lead the sheeple to slaughter as I fear and you well pointed out.

great posts! Thanks.

Would communism be any better?

No. Everyone suffers under government controlled dictatorship exponentially greater. Things are bad enough as is. Socialism as an ideal towards equality doesn't work when it migrates to communism.

We already live in a socialist democracy.

It is the management of our social structure that requires a fix. Ghettos and poverty should be non-existent in North America. Our Education and health care should be managed better, and we should have a minimum standard of living provided at a multiple of what the current system allows ($500/mo.).

In our current system, the government acts like profit maximizers in the private sector against those that elected them to work in their best interests. Due to incompetence or mismanagement, they can't see the forest for the trees following the only model they have built on the past when change is needed.

We have to fix our current system. Maybe put a personal cap on assets to say 3 to 10 Billion, allow a checkbox on tax returns to assist paying for social programs and healthcare than increase taxes and legalize casinos. It is mismanaged.

The decision makers are far from destitute. The adbus and airbus gates and our OSC, Nortel scandals, etc., are all a reflection of the mismanagement. Even mean spirited Harris cut social programs and wanted to cut humanities education as the Tunicci's told our poor to eat canned Tuna. Nortel told their employees and investors to go fly a kite before big business creditors. Its nuts out there during these primitive times. They pay our poor $500/mo. to keep off the streets for heavens sakes, who can exist let alone live on that.

Communism would be exponentially worse, What we need is an improved socialist capitalism with greater cooperation and a fiscal policy that rewards than punished the people who feed it. We a re stupid and live in primitive times. In a few hundred years we will shake our heads as we do now to burning witches a couple hundred years ago. The spittoon is obsolete and we no longer have slaves, as things improve =)

Even AAN seems to be winding down...9 days without a new headline soliciting readers' comments.

I hear Mark took a cue from Mike Z's saving massive $$$ via removal of some 30% of Nortels fluorescent bulbs to by disabling a full 50% of his computer's keyboard.

Of course, Mike Z considers that a patent owned by him, and is suing Mark for $30 mio.

Maybe Mark was ceremonially "laid off" from Nortel like the rest of us as recognition for his contributions to Nortel lore...

Plenty of profoundly astounding history that, albeit is not new, may still expose a great deal of reader interest and enlightenment.

The next upcoming news might be the remaining patents and LG sale as the lawyers and monitor claw at their maximizing value, like the last stab at bonuses and raises before the final eulogy.

Also fascinating are the upcoming fraud trials but John Manley's law firm, who defends Frank Dunn, has imposed a media blackout /ban In Canada. Perhaps the other fraud trials in the US with the mountains of evidence will disclose more about this largest fraud settlement in Canadian history. It will also be interesting to see how the Department of Justice will respond, perhaps as they had done with Enron... first comes the SEC civil lawsuits, then perhaps wham slam dunk DOJ criminal proceedings with quarter century sentences looming for one of the largest frauds settlements on earth and certainly the largest in Canada

Lots of new and fascinating headings to come I would imagine... a lot more =) Stay tuned.

in time the Canadians will find out as well when the USS Avaya, HMS Ericsson and USS Ciena all integrate operations cutting with swift efficiency. Canada, UK, I and the rest still have those old school bureaucrats in politics who can only mouth off and dance accomplishing nothing for their people.

the only joy for people seems to they will get their severance now, not that they have a better future to work hard and grow. wrong behavior that is now a part of them.

Nortel UK & I now to let go one in three, the cutting is only starting.

Avaya in their credit blackhole have little choice as they struggle to align the business as Global CPE sales fall further.

Watch this space, it's going to get worse for those at HMS Avaya as Nortanic pulls it down.

no new topics in a week... maybe NT really IS dead ;>)

Nortel plant closure confirmed
American-based multinational company Avaya has confirmed that Nortel's manufacturing plant in Monkstown has been put forward for closure, putting over 100 jobs at risk.

Friday, 29 January 2010
Tags: businessLocal News

Avaya, who bought over the enterprise division of Nortel after it went into administration last year, said in a statement that they had entered a consultation process "following the strategic business decision to potentially close the Monkstown (Northern Ireland) office."

Union representatives have claimed 140 staff will be made redundant if the move goes ahead

<<...went into administration...>>

sounds like it was their "time of the month" ;>)

I take (only) mild issue with the following headline from:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/busi...

Hughes Christensen and Nortel: Hundreds of Northern Ireland jobs to be lost as US companies withdraw

Nortel NI has been "US" for all of a few weeks, so whats the problem? Avaya is a US multnational.


...the Unite union said US multinational Avaya — which bought the enterprise division of bankrupt Canadian firm Nortel last month — has informed 140 staff it is not planning to stay in Northern Ireland.

Avaya declined to comment but Unite regional organiser Sean Smyth said a letter the union had received stated the company had started the 90-day consultation process with Nortel workers and that it was the firm’s “strategic intent to exit the Monkstown facility”.

“I’m absolutely shellshocked,” said Mr Smyth. “The company seems to have been here only to get their hands on the product not the people. They were only interested in profit.”

He added: “Our politicians need to stop messing about and wise up so that we make sure companies are not coming here for a quick buck but are here to stay.”

Nortel filed for bankruptcy protection in January, blaming the economic crisis for derailing its turnaround efforts.


NI couldn't see it coming, or, rather, going all this time.

The comment below offers insight as to why:

they're only jobs...... lets get on with the core business of marching and beating drums..........

what a sad place...............

Posted by Ian Wilson | 29.01.10, 10:33 GMT

<<Nortel filed for bankruptcy protection in January, blaming the economic crisis for derailing its turnaround efforts. >>

How's that for a load of BULLSH*T?!?!

This upsets me so much....that they are trying to re-write history. Please let us not all forget why Nortel sank from a multi-billion dollar company to a zero. It was not the economic crisis, it was desperately over-rated and under-equipped group of executives.

It was neither the economic downturn or the inexperienced management that sunk Nortel. It was the largest fraud in Canada.

Look at the events since 2004, to be seen to be believed.

http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.as...

"It was one of the biggest disasters in Canadian corporate history and had huge knock-on effects around the world"

"the series of "accounting errors" were "discovered" and through the embarrassing series of forced financial restatements that followed and brought the company to its knees."

"regardless of what, or what doesn't happen to those now charged with orchestrating the frauds that all but destroyed a once great company."

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/446516

"It's the biggest (financial scandal) in Canada, one of the biggest in the world,"

Aye, that.

I clearly remember seeing (in ~April 2009) MacKinnon and Lowe getting a coffee in Richardson....they seemed to be quite happy and one could think they were commenting on who would be there in a month or two! Two very happy, contented ELTs.

I think E&Y and myriad legions of lawyers will drag this out for months, if not years.
It is in their hip-pocket interest to do so. They pull enourmous fees from not only Nortel, but all their clients queued up to claim or sue, or to spin stories that they can make more money from this-or-that remnant, if they are paid fees to set it up (e.g: the patents pretence). All as long as there's a carcass to gnaw at. And they're getting very fat gnawing right now.
Nortel has stacks of real estate empty. They had it for many years, and did bugger all about it. It will either be sold for a pittance, or, E&Y & lawyers will create a case that says they should "manage" the sale.
They have floated "nortel business services", a murkily defined thing, to keep divested units running on Nortel IT systems, until the buyer migrates them onto their own IT systems (which alone can take years). For a fee, of course.

Personally, I reckon they'll drag this out to late 2011 or even beyond... it is in their direct self-interest to do so. They really aren't there for anyone's benefit but their own.

Nortel_Creditors_________Nortel_Management

( @ ) <======#8

MC

Proto, let's set the record straight for a moment.

I do think that Nortel will be operating through to early 2011 for one reason only. That reason is to complete the obligations of the various Transition Services Agreements struck with Ericsson, Avaya, Cienna and others. CVAS isn't even sold yet and likely won't close for a few more months, before that Transition Services Agreement even begins. There is a lot of work to be done, especially in various IT systems.

I do not think that Nortel will be selling their products and services to the market in 2011. That I expect will come to an end sometime in 2010 as the business units are sold.

Who do you speculate will be performing these services? Nortel?
The buyer determines what they want to support and for how much. Not Nortel.
Nortel is out, gone, finished. Even Verizon, their largest customer when they were operating, could not juristic terms after they were sold.

Don't give me this silly "There is a lot of work to be done, especially in various IT systems." ...in this rapidly changing industry, do you not think a year and a half is a long time by even others than Nortel, Nortel is dead, not even like a zombie. dead, gone soon. history, poof zero.

What's with the fixation of propping up the corpse with a spiffy new hat every day. Not even the rude idiots like teleguy agree with you let alone good posters, unless this is another one of your clever IDs like Moose Chaser. No offense if it isn't.

All those guys are right about NBS.
Who will be performing these services?
Nortel people who were not taken by a buyer but were kept on for
exactly this. As hard as it is for you to digest it is happening and will happen.
The Nortel saga has years to go.
Doesn't matter if there is alot of work to do or not or even if it is justifiable.
It's gonna get done.
Would not be the first time a useless organization, (which may or may not be the case here, I simply don't know) was created in title only.
Nortel does not have a monopoly on that.
You can blame the system, the courts, the lawyers and the gov't if you don't like it. The poor schmuck who may keep their job over this is not complaining and they should not be hammered on it. Get use to it.
Hey look at it this way.
At least some North American Jobs not being outsourced!!
A small victory.
"If the writing is on the wall, it usually means you can't remove it, unless you tear down the wall".
Anonymous Quote from Me.

when u bean on life support dis long, whuz anotha year mattah, bro?

when da "knew" Nortel commabout, what it gonna do?
soo-in da pantz off pat-ent troll suckas?
p1mpin' 100g solutions foh a kewl 50k?
rentin' flats and manajin' prop-a-tee?
sellin' "YO MAMA SO BAD...No-teL" hi-shizzle wifebeaters?
runin' a corn dog stand, feedin' da' penshuners?

2011 goes to mah peeps Mike Z and Pavi Bee, beeotches stole mah turn-table.

2011? Don't think so. It will all be wrapped up much sooner than that. CVAS is next soon and whatever is left will be sold or wound down.

Shortly after the CVAS Stalking Horse announcement with Genband, Charlie Vogt, CEO of Genband made the following comment during a Lightreading interview:

"There are risks in the data. There are risks in the financials. There are risks in every element of the business. But it's really all the other elements – all the back-office systems that are driving this business. It's 18 months of work to transition all of those legacy systems, literally dozens and dozens of legacy IT and financial systems that have to be converted and mapped to Genband's IT infrastructure."

This 18 month transition time period forms the basis for why I think that Nortel Business Services will be operating into 2011.

sounds like a staged question for you to elaborate on, no offense if this is not true. =)

At the rate it's going, I no longer believe post 1666 will be attained.

Shhhhh TongeInCheeks wants to see them operate well into 2011.

Like "pumper zombies" as one good poster on Yahoo put it...
"When somebody tells you to hold a bankrupt stock, they have to be brain dead pumper zombies. Sure they walk and post in a kinda human way but their minds have been sucked out. Posting again and again about this dead company ...Don't let them suck your brain out."

"Mindless zombie pumpers will pound their keyboards but the NT board will be no more. The zombie plague that has held Canada in it's grip for a decade will be over."

"The last lame refuge of the diseased zombie mind. Anyone who posts negative about NT must be proto. Never mind the obvious mindless horde of zombie id's pumping. Forget that Proto has been right for years. Be zombiefied; don't think. All shuffle together toward the end of Nortel. Poor sad souls, only their destruction will bring relief. "



I was trickled pink I was mentioned =) Their stock NTBK.PK traded $11,000 worth yesterday on the pink sheets... at .0035 presplit for anyone holding long enough and a $300B cap to $650,000 on these pink sheets... how dead can it get before zero. As they extend liquidating, forget restructuring, they even said they wouldn't restructure the immediate day following forced government inquiry, they lie.

When they hired Pavi that was the beginning of the end. The only thing he has been known for is dismantling companies.

So why the continual posts about restructuring?

Rather the topic should read, "Destructuring.....by Pavi"

This is why I think they lied before the government hot seat inquiry that they were forced by subpoena to attend. Bankruptcy pro Pavi arrrived after so many insider only CFOs but in plenty of time to clearly see the intent and very reason they needed some one with his background Contrary to what they downplayed or claimed that they didn't know, BS...they lied and lied after ultimatum, circumventing loopholes, even paid a premium for green CEO who defrauded his past employer from day one who went on to promote his criminally charged pal. Even Manley's law firm defends Dunn. Running out of cash was the bunker buster.

All after extending repair of accounting for so long, even the lenient SEC stepped in to ask what the hell was going on.

CEO and Binning are even being sued for misleading, by leaving largest asset on books they sought to clean so long as a tax credit.

All after the past plea bargained and timely resigned board denying obvious red flags with Nortel's reluctance to chase past officers. Even the green board traded options again, diffusing gravity of mass orchestrated mega fraud with so few fall guys that were not at the crime scene as so many were still there hard to find, or kill the incentive and intent behind why options are issued to begin with, like trading a losing bet at a crooked casino. They even cut severances, pay raises and bonuses after bankruptcy, all legally with an army of lawyers as they increased lawsuit insuranace to a whopping $300 million.

The most unethical conduct since the largest fraud settlement in Canada, one under ultimatum where they refused to negotiate exorbitant pay practices, one they tanked with even further revisions to claim mark-to-market profits after killing even future periods like 2005's BS triple profits.

No credibility but ongoing lies and contradictions ...no plan but asking for even more cash after rewarding printing billions, circumventing listing largest pension shortfall under a loophole closed right after they printed billions in bonds, rewarding cutting costs for the sake of bonuses on forever profitless units by a green CEO defrauding from day one and promoting than firing criminally charged pal, also green.

Bankruptcy Binning escorted Marconni to the grave too, so what else was he good for aside from a bit of telecom experience. Like hell they did not know they would fold earlier, why else would they bring in Bankruptcy Binning with insolvency expertise after so many insider only CFOs.

Its like a real and live walking talking Enron in my view, extended enormous liberties, hiding behind high profilers, allowed to cover their tracks in Canada, moving and selling HQ before liquidating, to hide the past under the rug and pay their big business creditors or milk what is left to loot the corpse as they shaft employees and shareholders.

Corruption at the highest levels from government to the lenient OSC ...but Harper distances himself from tyranny, and Nortel is out, gone, fired, with no further funding as an extension of our Universities learning grounds as they traded technological innovation to one of bonuses and financial innovation. Money ran out thank goodness or billions more would have been siphoned by the contradicting, greedy green bozos whether at the crime scene or not, too few fall guys with high profilers to detract from the gravity and an army of lawyers to defy the laws of physics. To have been seen to be believed.

WFT? You babble nonsensically here. What is your point - in a *&^% paragraph you pompous windbag.

What is so pompous about it?

If you can't read it, don't, than profanely name call like a coward lacking any substantation or argument, as usual. State what is pompous or what you disagree with,.

Even if it were arrogant or "pompous" as you humorously put it, better pompous than a challenged rude prik using rude low class terms, what a bum, shame on you if you had any. Is this how you conduct yourself in real life you sorry poor excuse for a human being?

In a paragraph is tough to summarize but most importantly

"Like hell they did not know they would fold earlier, why else would they bring in Bankruptcy Binning with insolvency expertise after so many insider only CFOs....Its like a real and live walking talking Enron"

More to come as fraud trials on both sides of the border commence after they liqudate. You sound worried? No offense if you are not,

I intend expose how crooks are stupid as they spring many, many subpoenas in the not too distant future with the DOJ all ears. More to come and hardly boring as MC or your other IDs would say. No offense if it is not you,

Did they outsource pavi from india so he could do some outsourcing.

Hundreds of thousands of unemployed Canadians could see their benefits run out with no job prospects in sight, according to an analysis the Canadian Labour Congress released Monday.

This could get interesting ?!?!

Governments/Bankers/Big Business had fun with us till now , but soon the tides will turn .. " Every 60 years the wealth must be returned to the people , or the blood will flow in the streets" ....... its been 60 years since the Great Depression ..Books have been written on this topic.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/columnists/al_r...

Things are bound to get better, right?

Not so fast. What has really changed? Yes, the lousy returns of the aught decade were bookended by two disastrous market meltdowns, the tech wreck and the liquidity crunch. Unfortunate timing to say the least, which is unlikely to be duplicated on such an arbitrary basis.

Nevertheless, we will certainly see more market crashes in the future, and some pretty lousy 10-year investment returns, because there were some stark similarities between the last two market meltdowns, and some major precipitating factors have not been fixed, or even given more than cursory consideration by lawmakers and regulators.

A clear parallel for the lousy investment returns of the past decade is Canada’s flatline performance when it comes to improving investor protections. We opened the 2000s by worshipping Nortel as a national icon, based mostly on its unbelievable market performance. You could get lynched for suggesting that the stock price was too good to be true. If you pointed out what was in plain black and white (i.e., that the company did not make any money), you were simply shouted down by the mob.

The general hysteria of the time meant that investors ignored the obvious, encouraged by brokerage firms, analysts, and the media in general, and all condoned by the silence of our market regulators. A heavy focus was placed on fictional profit figures, and disbelief was suspended.

But even as Nortel was falling, income trusts were rising because of that all-important law of the market: underwriters abhor a vacuum. The phony performance metrics that gave rise to the likes of Nortel were dusted off and applied to many income trusts. Once again, the bottom line was ignored, and investors piled in.

Some claimed that income trusts were not like Nortel because they were “real businesses that made money.” Sure, the vast majority turned a profit, but in many cases it was not enough to justify the high cash distributions they were spewing out to entice investors to bid the unit prices even higher. Investors were allocating their money based on short-term cash budgeting figures, instead of long-term profit-generating ability. Too many people — underwriters, lawyers, accountants, and specialist portfolio managers — were making money from the income trust boom.

Carrying on the theme of the decade, high returns were promised, profits were ignored, and investors took the bait.

fundamentally flawed investment that promised them higher returns, just like with Nortel and the business trusts. Many retail investors suffered major losses as their funds were tied up for years in the frozen investments. After it was all said and done, the penalties for the brokerage firms involved were seen as a joke by many of those who were scarred by the scandal.

In sum, there has been no justice, and thus, no lessons learned or changes made.

Who would you be quoting, there?

Yes you are right, they just restructured their bounus

Hurray, More Time to polish the turd!

RESTRUCTURING?

What they really restructured are BONUSES!!!

LMFAO ... YA ONLY NORTEL IS DOING POORLY... who just bought who?

Ericsson loss prompts job cuts

Stockholm - Wireless equipment maker Ericsson on Monday said it will cut another 1500 jobs this year after reporting a 92% drop in fourth-quarter profit as mobile operators slashed spending.

Hardly shocking news in my opinion. Would you care to name any company - let alone such a massive global one like Ericsson - who has NOT laid off sizeable numbers of employees?
Of their overall headcount, this is a minor fraction.
And the killer point is, despite the massive downturn we all know about - they are STILL MAKING A PROFIT!. And they have a history of making reasonably accurate statements about their prospects. In contrast to Nortel. I'd much rather be under threat at Ericsson than Nortel. For example;
The Nortel BoD or CEO's or their myriad swirl of senior management and layers, never, ever, cared a crap about net profit. I respectfully defy you to point to a shred of evidence they ever did.
e,g: Ericsson have never embarrassed themselves or their staff with result announcements of "400 percentage points operating profit growth". 400!! Turned out Nortel's globally unique concept of "a" percentage point was one one thousandth of a percent, LOL. Or was it 10 thosandths? Didn't matter - it was diabolical. So E\\\ is still making a small profit? Lucky them is all I can say, it must be a well run business.

92% drop is huge. for a minute i thouht it was a typo 92% drop or drop to 92%. it is a 92% drop from over 3 billion to just about 380 million. wow! sounds like trouble coming. so its ALU, E/// and NSN all in trouble.

writing on the wall: chinese onslaught coming and this would be a time for total domination.

is this the Nortel curse?

Ericsson said net profit in the October-December period was 314m kronor ($43.4m), down from 3.9bn kronor in the same three months 2008, while full year profits dropped 67% to 3.7bn kronor ($512m).

still huge dip

Curses only happen in the Mummy Returns.
The Chinamen are not a threat.
We are simply not going to pay the debt owed.
You can chew on that mister chairman.
Just send them tea, nitro glycerine and mandarins and they'll be happy.
Keep up the pollution over there and don't forget the Canadians have lots
of Natural Resources for sale. Show me the Money.

Umm, not sure if you realize that the American Gov't will not stop payments to China, as Chinese companies owning its fat ass. North America and most of Europe decided long ago to outsource their manufacturing to China, so if some genius in power decides it would be a good idea to halt payment of Chinese debt, you can kiss off any goods coming from China (which, is everything you import). They could also call their debt, which would create the next depression in the Western world.

China is powerful. India is becoming powerful. They are a big threat. True they were not innovators like the West but they are now getting there and quickly. The US will still survive after a long road to recovery. But this time is being used quite strategically as the two Asian economies continue. Economies like Canada will eventually not stay in great shape with looming debt, less manufacturing, continued offshoring (not even supporting your own) and low population (no volume, high prices).

I dont think consumers care anymore about 'made in ....'. With the recent Toyota and Ford recall of gas pedals made in china, there is no demand to stop getting things made cheaply. how many companies have had lead, chemicals in milk products, hazardous product all made in china.

It may require some big political moves to move things back here. Obama taxing companies to keep jobs here is a first. It all comes down to protecting your own. Free trade is good but if is going to bust your house, you make sure you close the doors or at least partially open. This requires big metal balls which our politicians do not have.

You have more wrong than you have right.
India and China are powerful. The United States is much more powerful. The U.S is the center of the universe. Their military technology, hardware, software and capability to execute and deliver (excluding stuff you don't even know about) along with their medical and scientific knowledge and positioning is light years ahead of China and India. Because North American Governments (excluding third world drug land Mehico) have allowed greed at the corporate and executive level to grow like a cancer we have lost jobs and the word "outsourcing" has become a word of major annoyance to North Americans. Much like the words visible minority, refugee claims, official languages act and multiculturalism. Your comment about Canada is really sad. Think about that one a little harder. Thirty million people, 2nd largest land mass on earth, infinite natural resources and eager to dig them up, mine them, harvest and sell them (including water) at top prices. Those Top prices are only going to Rise. I would say Canada is probably the best positioned country on the PLANET for the Future. It's a no brainer. The governments of north america just have to ease up on bureaucracy and start taking care of their own citizens rather than waste money on others. Not very Christian to begin with but we have no choice. You have to fix cracks in the foundation before you expand. At least in America. The wildcard of Natural Resources for Canada puts them on a better playing surface than everyone else. Canada just needs to boot out the leftist, tree hugging freaks who want to close down the oilsands due to environmental reasons. These clowns don't realize natural resource extraction and selling pays for all the lame sponge eating useless refugee/welfare recipients, and our social systems geared to take care of the visible minority hiring rights cost, official language costs, multiculturalism etc.
Not to mention FREE HEALTH care for ALL and EI.
Good thing these turds are indeed a useless, laughingstock minority fed by retarded university professors full of their own twisted Chairman Mao, Ward Churchill, Bill Ayers Ideology.
Pass the Jack.

yeah yeah. more than a trillion in debt is not very powerful. sounds quite broke. if they were so powerful they would not be bending to china requesting to take us companies off the sanction list for selling to taiwan.

if you are right about one thing its about Canada being a sad story. it has a lot of wasted potential but nothing can be done if you only have daft people running the country.

what "ummmm"... sounds so intelligent in dialogue... like duh

how can anyone doubt your reasoning

terms like "fat ass" "genius" "kiss off" expose low class, its gross, and challenged

Yea the americans are bending over backwards paying that debt back at an alarming rate. Check your facts.
Chinese don't scare me.
Look what Japan did to them.
It's not in their nature to screw with people outside
their own borders.
hell.they even built a wall to keep invaders out.

well I think you are mistaken big time. maybe flip the pages of your history book from the 18th century to the 21st. you will realize that the walls are moving extending the boundary, which they have always been hungry about for centuries.

if what you say is right then search for general home / business / electronic products from your local home depot, walmart, best buy not made in china. heck nobody even would know how to make a nut and bolt here anymore. those widgets also cover the electronic and software ones. so good luck to future generations here.

So please tell me what Countries China and India have invaded or conquered over the years.
I agree too much stuff is made overseas but
we can change that if we elect the proper politicians.

you are still stuck in medieval times are you not. if you look at the business landscape you will see how all the resources, jobs, companies are being snapped up.

power to the people not elf serving politicians.

Russia is spending hundreds of billions buying canadian gold and dollars knowing that the Canadian Economy will be one of the few left standing due to its incredible Natural Resource Wealth and minor/modest population.
Long as Canada does not blow it by giving away too much to refugees, immigrants and canadians of convenience, multiculturalism, and the official languages act, that country should do just fine. And a big bonus is not having the Juarez drug lords at your southern border and having to worry about that every day.

Anyone know if the former Nortel Canadian employees should file the claim after being laid off? The company said no because it is automatically included . Any one know?

File what claim?

Good question!

I think the people who can answer your question would be the
MONITOR ( E & Y Lawfirm ). But after April 2010, who knows what will happen?
At the present time, I don't know if they will even entertain such questions?

Mark, the choice of fine point font for post number 1,600 was a great choice.

We have gotten so accustomed to reading the fine print in every Nortel announcement that ole Horse mistakenly assumed your post was simply another caveat in a Nortel earnings report.

For your next post, please double space it because we are so used to reading between the lines for anything Nortel says.

Nortel started doing this far too late in the game:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5118711,00...

Temporary employment agency work has grown in Germany in recent years - thanks to a 2003 law allowing temps to stay in a job for more than one year. A coalition of Social Democrats and Greens first devised the legislation as part of the Agenda 2010 package of social reforms.

But the sector, which is still tiny in relative terms, is commonly associated with low wages and exploitative employment practices. This week's reports about [drugstore chain]Schlecker looks set to cast the sector in an even poorer light.

The trade union Verdi has accused Schlecker of forcing its employees to take new contracts through a temporary employment agency called Meniar, which pays only half of the usual hourly wage, about 6.70 euros ($9.73) instead of 12.50 euros ($18.17). It also said it believed Meniar was entirely controlled by Schlecker.

It appears Mr. Schlecker found a way around his country's minimum wage, etc. by closing many of his small, so-called "AS", stores, firing employees, revamping and reopening them as "XS", staffed with mostly temps.

But while many labor representatives might regard existing dismissal laws as sacrosanct and regard temp agencies with skepticism, the German employment market is, in practice, becoming a two-class system, which favors the old over the young, the settled over the flexible and, in some cases, men over women.

"We still assume that you work your whole life long for the same company. This has changed in recent years," said labor market expert Holger Bonin, of the ZEW Center for Economic Research.

Mr. Schlecker is worth about 4bil Euros. In 1998 Schlecker and his wife were given a suspended sentence of ten months each and fined 1mio euros for deceiving Schlecker employees into believing they were paid according to going pay rates. Actual salaries were lower, which the court deemed fraud.

Some corporate raider Yankee Z was, eh.

I'll almost bet the majority of NT employees in NA would've taken a hefty pay cut to keep the dog afloat, as it were.

Oh, Thank GOD !

Now, with all this restructuring time, we can continue to play
these stupid games that Nortel thought was "marketting" !!

Hey, Pavi: How far can YOU throw that brick ?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!

http://www95.nortel.com/

mc

"mc"? I see you end you posts with initials too, like at Yahoo
Also some new IDs surface here that all end in a few numbers? Strange, very weird.

As for your intelligent "BWHAHAHA"... my goodness that dry hack sounds painful...

no wonder Nortel crashed and burned, listen to the prevailing culture and by who... sickos and crooks, rude and challenged... who else can they be?

For what it’s worth, this is post number 1,600 on AAN.
========
re
sincere congratulations Mark Evans
Nobody is perfect Mark but you achieved high levels on your blog.
I wish that the Nortel experience would become the warning for other public companies and their management /CEOs, CFOs, CLOs, Board of Directors'/
Do they need more proof that crime does not pay?
I wish you Mark that all distinguished posters to your blog come back and celebrate with you.
I wish to hear from posters on both sides of spectrum

1.Diana Urquhart (I would nominate her for PM of Canada position)
http://www.youtube.com/user/dianeurquhart
2.Bo Gowan social media menager /good job in a bad circumstances/
http://twitter.com/BoGowan
3.Duncan Stewart, a visionary financial analyst
http://www.dsam.ca/
4.
5.
6.
anyone has own nominees?
please fill up the list to invite them for 1600 celebration
(just an idea)
btw
I am able to go public at that moment
most of interested in me know that already
Stan Piasta, defrauded Nortel's shareholder
Ottawa
yes4aapl2007 @ yahoo.com

WHO CARES ?!!!!!

MC

No worry, the top mgt will keep the cash for themselves. But i can say, they ONLY care themselves. See what happen in the next few weeks

You people think this was a huge Heist ? Its only the beginning. Just wait until the US dollar goes bankrupt , Madoff , Nortel , Enron ? just kids in a candy store stealing. The people at the top know the system is going broke , so they are grabbing all they can before its too late. Once the dollar goes bankrupt? anyone with cash in the bank ...in hand or pension plans? ... all will be wiped out ... the ultimate heist , the middle class will be reduced to ZERO while Bankers and Companies will be left with all the assets. And our governments are backing it. Those who think this is a conspiracy theory should do some homework

I always found it odd that Nortel chose Richardson, TX as a Center of Excellence, just a few miles from Dallas' Dealey Plaza, where JFK was proven to have been hit by no less than 20 assassins situated around the grassy knoll. The Mafia, Nixon, Castro - they all had a guy at the ready where streets

__________/-------X-------------- Elm
=========------------------------Main
```````````````` \-----------------------Commerce

briefly converge. Hello? What was Nortels' Main source of income, briefly? E-Commerce. Can you spell those street names without the letters MEN?

Nixon's first name was "Richard" so "Richard's son" - ie. "spawn of Richard" - could mean Nortel's campus was Nixon's tribute, a for-profit monument, to the murder of JFK.

Nortel is located right by the "President George Bush Turnpike".

A notable Richardsonian is Marina Oswald Porter, Russian wife of Lee Harvey Oswald at the time of the Kennedy Assassination.

Uh....are you mental ?

MC

"uh" is another ... duh...

I read "conspiracy" and. like any Discerning Thinker, merely auto-elaborated.

You're right. Nortel. JFK, Madoff, Enron, the Polanski rape are old hat, lets move on, who cares anymore.

The longer it takes, the better it is for the Canadian pension fund, as long as the market keeps recovering. The last valuation of the Canadian pension fund reported that the fund would cover 69% of the obligations, down from >80% because of market conditions. The market has improved significantly since then so the exposure should be reduced.

I think you have to put that statement in its proper perspective.
The longer it takes does indeed mean it is "better" for the Canadian pension fund however the caveat there is that the only "reapers" of the rewards associated with
the "better" pension fund status are "Current Pensioners" who have been drawing 100 percent of that up to present day unabated. These people are revelling in watching this spectacle creep to the finish line at a snails place. Not so bright for creditors. Those people had to "cash in" at a return rate of 69 percent if they were laid off prematurely. That will include them and more to come till nortel is completely buried. I can't imagine anyone would choose to wait and draw from this pension fund at a much later date (retirement) when it could be zero? Suggesting it will go from 69 percent UP in the future does not make any sense. The pension fund assets are going to be divvied up to pay creditors are they not? I don't see how it will "grow" increasing this 69 percentage value down the road. Please explain?

In terms of where the future payout will go, it is primarily driven by the performance of the plan's assets (let's assume life expectancy rates and the number of expected new retirees to remain constant).

The fund improved in 2009 because the markets performed tremendously well in 2009. In my humble opinion, that was solely a result of crazy amounts of cash pumped into the world wide economy from central banks and governments, as well as other policy measures such as low interest rates, debt guarantees, credit/quantitative easing and so forth. This was not a real rally, but an artificially propped up rally.

Now that governments and central banks are looking to re-coup what they have pumped into the systems, as when (not if) interest rates start to rise, I expect to see another collapse in financial markets, and I expect to see it in 2010.

If you have an option to pull out, I personally would do it now.

No, the pension fund is protected and is not used to pay debt. Each Canadian employee who was participating in the plan has a specific accumulated pension value based on a few variables. Because the plan was not held in cash and was invested in various securities, which is common, the fund was impacted by downturns in the market and can no longer cover all of it's obligations.

When the company finally dies, the pension fund will be closed and put into an alternate administration vehicle. At that time, the value of each person's pension will be recalculated based on how underfunded the pension fund is. So if the fund is underfunded by 31%, the value of your pension in the new structure will be 31% less and it will never increase. If the market continues to go up, the pension will be underfunded by a smaller amount and the value of your pension in the new structure will be higher. So, if you're a member of the Nortel Canadian pension fund, be happy with every delay as long as the market continues to recover.

You mean a member of the Nortel Canadian pension who to this day is currently drawing full pension. I think that note is relevant is it not.

The only hick-up is that retiree's continue to get their full pension(100%) on an underfunded pension plan(69%). For all ex-Nortel that took their money out at the rate of 69% or left it there till their pension because of the large income tax that would be involve in the withdraw, this situation is completely at their disadvantage. To be fair, pension should be cut for everyone at the rate of 69% until everything unfolds and we get the final picture on what will be left in the pension pool.

That won't happen.
As you say and what I was insinuating is true, creditors or ex nortelers
who took their money out at 69 percent or who left it there are INDEED at a huge disadvantage compared to current pensioners who were drawing before BP.

True. However, some pensioners will undoubtedly have died also, which benefits the overall fund because no new members are being added anymore.

The 69% was calculated by actuaries that took life expectations into account, so I would not count on dead for an improvement in the fund. In fact, Nortel sent a lot of people to pension at an early age in the last 10 years because of cost cutting due to the declining business, this probably contributed to the hole in the pensionfund. Add to this that people quitting Nortel not long ago were getting 100% or 85% of their pension.

wasthere is right.
Nortel had a penchant for giving a golden handshake with a good parachute to many many individuals who were in that grey zone between 26 to 30 years service. Early retirement, incentives and favouritism many times predicated upon the relationship between the lucky ones and their managers. I would tend to agree that practice, likely did contribute to the hole in the fund. I don't know how big of a hole, or how much of a contributing factor this was in the overall scheme of things. But definitely it contributed.

Hard to gauge the impact unless you had statistics detailing the age and health of said people, but yes most are seniors. Seniors are living longer now though.

This was a given, like their EDC welfare renewals.
This is the very first company in history to have been afforded so many liberties.
Skilling and Ebbers must be heavily medicated to inhibit uncontrollable laughter.
Heck, even an ex board member Manley's law firm defends an ex-CEO Dunn.

If they had the money to keep burning, they would still be operating with extended repair of accounting while paying a green team exorbitantly to hype endless contradictions on steroids even though they were not at the crime scene like the powerful who denied obvious red flags and timely resigned in plea bargain. (ultimatum, like their pay practices even a green team refused to negotiate in largest fraud settlement in Canada and so many insider only CFOs before Binning, and they didn't know... heh)

Enough legal power (increased to $300M) to rewrite the laws of physics, what might one expect? Suddenly entering chapter 7 this late in the game to take control and ultimatums away from them =)

They liquidated the immediate day after the forced government inquiry, who wants to rock the boat even though they always did use other people's money?

An extension for big business creditor pals they want to please over their employees/peons. The judge Gross must be gleeful.

What's another extension, they are doing such a fine job liquidating, what's another few extensions, a few more months salary after raises and ongoing bonuses as they cut severances, increase legal fees, trade options, etc., after all, the company pays not them, like the ultimatum fraud settlement they tanked, keep those extensions coming.

If E&Y didn't apply for the Chpt. 11 extension before selling CVAS, then the creditors would have a case against them.

Not everything E&Y do is a conspiracy.

We should remember that extensions ARE NOT a requirement under US Chapter-11 law as the stay period is granted throughout the CH-11 proceedings from day 1. CCAA law in Canada is different, where extensions are typically granted on a 90 days basis and effectively have to be renewed through court requests and orders such as this one.

Having the stay period in the US effective, but not effective in the Canadian jurisdiction would be crazy. It's not a conspiracy, it's procedural and nothing more.

I think the pertinent question here is "How many 90 day extensions can Nortel ask for and Get"? I think the answer is as many as they like. I personally could see this continuing another 12 to 18 months, but that's just me. I do based this on information, speculation and what the media, common sense and history are saying. See how it has played out so far. Extension after Extension after Extension and they are not done yet. The end is on the horizon but even after the last door is closed there will be yet more delays for more analysis and navel gazing. You can count on that. I will be shocked if they give an actual date that basically says something to the effect "We at Nortel have Determined the day of BLANK will be the last day of any current or future extensions. The day after BLANK will be the day creditors start receiving a pittance return on their claims. This will also be the day that the pension fund remains locked at a SET percentage for pensioners who were drawing before bankruptcy protection, but there is no gurantee that will continue. For those who were not drawing on their pension before BP if you are expecting to draw in the future there will be nothing there. You should have taken the lump sum".

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Nortel's business continue through to Q2 - 2011 to finish the obligations of the various Transition Services Agreements signed with Ericsson, Avaya and others.

Every day is a surprise.

Were you surprised when they claimed bankruptcy to restructure? Were you surprised when the claimed no restructuring but liquidating?

Will you be surprised when they have no more declining business to maximize value for, or justify further extending monitor and legal fees, increased salaries, etc., before the Nortel brand disappears forever.

How can you speculate into 2011 when we have just started 2010... when it took them a year to liquidate almost everything and so little left. I think they will be history sooner than that.

Nortel will emerge as the premiere provider of eangings restatements for large compoanies.

Heh, ya...

After restating a restatement they can extend repairing internal controls, settle largest fraud settlement in Canada under ultimatum they sought to dismiss, tank that settlement for mark-to-market profits killing /deferring triple profits no longer needed in that period, with revisions restating a restated restatement to go on and print $4B in Nortel paper with their largest asset a tax write off on books they sought to clean and largest pension deficit in Canada hidden in financing application. ...It was so endless... profoundly astounding, to be seen to be believed right to cutting severances and paying bonuses, to this day...amazing

HURRAY!!! More! more! more! MONEY for the Lawyers and Law Firms!!!!

I can undestand the LOOTINGS in HAITI! but, Not the LOOTINGS in NORTEL!!!

A HEIST!!!!

I predict 1,666 posts.... for what it's worth.

Somewhat different subject, sorry.

Under KEIP and KERP, there were going to be 4 milestone payments. I think Epiq has divulged 2 up to now, right?

Would appreciate anyone who has more details to share them here.

April 23 is barely 8 weeks from the CVAS auction scheduled for Feb. 25 in NYC.

I disagree, the carcass can rot longer. Likely, Sept. 30, end of Q3.

Don't the patents depreciate and leasing them expire as technology and competition advances? How long will or can they hold value?

Wouldn't the creditors have to agree to this yet further liberty than take their money off the table?

Isn't this extension's intent to complete liquidating and to get the best value for their secured creditors?

Yep, fun to see that Nortel can extend as they wish this liquidation(restructure what ???). Seems that some Corporations have all the rights even when they did steal the rights from creditors and recent fired employees. This is probably democracy's definition in this Corporate World !

what

The extension is procedural in CCAA law and makes sense to allow the CVAS deal to close without interruption. The courts are obligated to protect the interests of the creditors which is directly tied to the CVAS deal as well.