Nortel’s LTE Orphans

I'm one of the LTE people let go yesterday. I think that Mgmt did their best to accommodate people and saved many jobs. They are reasonable people and I don't doubt that they did their best to save as many jobs as possible and I appreciate their efforts.

I don't speak for the others, only myself.

The "RIM list" did include some very key people, but I wouldn't say ALL the key people were on that list. I believe the E/// and RIM lists were pretty balanced in terms of key people.

My opinion is that RIM is to blame for this. Plus, if RIM really cared about the people affected, they would hire them!

"My opinion is that RIM is to blame for this. Plus, if RIM really cared about the people affected, they would hire them!"
----------------------------------
To me, the way things went down seems to be squarely on NT's shoulders, as they are the employer and went along with this sequestering - For Their Own Benefit. As far as "caring", this is business, as it should be. RIM played the odds, and came up empty handed. If RIM winds up being successful in what they are really after, they probably would hire the people they originally intended to.
On a similar note - If NT's Mgmt. had been serious about business, and 100% focused in the right direction instead of the shenanigans that went on, they would probably still be whole today.

"To me, the way things went down seems to be squarely on NT's shoulders, as they are the employer and went along with this sequestering - For Their Own Benefit."

I believe everyone involved (with more information than available here) does not blame this one on Nortel management.

But even with the information available here, it shouldn't be hard to see that when a deal is in the works that includes headcount, you can't turn that headcount over to another company without facing potential lawsuits.

Also consider that the Ericsson deal actually included a specified headcount. They have no obligations beyond that.

I know it goes against the grain on this board, but this one was not inflicted by Nortel.

I'm sorry, I should explain. I agree with and understand why it is that Ericsson could not and did not take these employees. Maybe not "inflicted" by Nortel, but this fall-out perhaps avoidable. What I find fault with is NT's architecture of this plan, choosing these people to be held aside for a "possible" deal with no back-up plan if it didn't happen. For every plan, you should have an alternative if it doesn't happen, especially when you are dealing with other people's livelihoods, unbeknownst to them. Based on Mark's description that they are now "scrambling" it seems this was not ever considered, which it seems "nice" they are concerned, but there should not be a need to scramble when you think things through with some thought and care.

NT did not choose to hold these folks aside hoping for the RIM deal, but the deal was imminent and RIM picked most of the people and prevented them from being part of the stalking horse. I still blame RIM.

By the way, word on the street is that E/// will be extending offers to most of these folks soon. I think all of them should get offers, but a few may not :(

Not at work this week?

The layoffs were yesterday, you couldn't miss the mass of goodbye emails. A whole bunch of people didn't decide to leave on their own yesterday.

While some people were saved and the numbers here are not the numbers I heard and I won't go into those specifics.

There were essentially no changes from Mondays Somber Townhall when the cuts (and numbers for cut/saved) were announced, till yesterday when the same number of cuts announced Monday were ALL cut.

It is really sad for those let go, to make it so far, through so many cuts, to get tossed just before the end and they will get lost in a sea of Enterprise folks in the job market.

But most may? That is awesome. I knew that someone would not cast aside people with this much talent.
Thanks for the update. Hope it will pan out,

Yes
With NT stock defrauding millions of shareholders of Billions of $$$ I am closer to the conspiracy theories.
Why would they do that?
Who did benefit the most from that $300 bill fraud_game?
lies after lies and media cover up the truth
let's see this one
another hoax that we'll run out of oil soon is exposed
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/stor...
Endless oil.

How ironic, lots of duds were sent over to CDMA org. during the realigning of the Business Units..They were expected to be laid off but instead with the Wireless purchase, those are now saved while the LTE folks are at risk.

It just goes to show you competency and skills are not a big factor when it comes to making cost cutting decision by the morons running the Wireless. The same will happen with the trimming of Enterprise once they hand it over to Avaya.

Wireless unit : done, Canada won't review the sale to Ericsson.
Enterprise : done, Verizon opposition was turn down today by a US court.

Now let's have MEN talk ! Is this a real crown jewel or not ? It's been one year since Nortel did put it on the sale block.

VOIP and Passport products are also good Nortel assets that are still to go.

Bidders, take a number !!

IF two deals were being worked. There would be sets of people lined up for each deal. There would be good quality people in both sets.

IF Ericsson closed it's deal and picked up it's set, they would have met their obligations of the purchase.

IF the second deal fell apart. That second set of people would be in Limbo. Management might then help them find other jobs after they were left in the lurch by the collapse of the other deal, because creditors will balk at paying for employees after the assets have closed.

It all makes sense, IF that is what happened.

When is the next auction and what is the nextNT asset/division to go? Is it safe to assume the LTE patents would be last to go? Either RIM gets them or NT is re-capitalized.

While there was some very, very good people on that list, it is a stretch to say they were the top LTE R&D people. Proof enough, my name was not on the list..

oh yes you invented LTE like Al Gore invented the internet. you pompous a$$

Where's a "Lockbox" when you need one?? ;>)

phhht...hardly proof and runs contrary to what you state with arrogance and illiteracy.

What scientist with any degree of sophism or good person could be so pompous.

pull my finger

;>) Chalk one up for literacy!!

NOBODY zings' em like Proto !

MC

I am sceptical of this story. Nortel has no problems finding holding spots for people they want to keep even if there is not a lot of work for them.

I would not be surprised that some are being held for a possible RIM sale if a back door agreement is close.

E// had only agreed to take on 80% of the organization and these people may not be in the area that the LTE patents that were licensed to E//

I suspect these are just people caught in the 3Q rush to bring costs down and would have been cut anyway.

Cuts are happening all over Enterprise this week as part of the previous 100o headcount reduction announced earlier.

I will wait to hear more of this story

I would not be surprised that some are being held for a possible RIM sale if a back door agreement is close.

E// had only agreed to take on 80% of the organization and these people may not be in the area that the LTE patents that were licensed to E//
-------------------------

Looks like you may be correct..

Wow.... Guys, be pissed at RIM for stirring the pot. This wouldn't have happened to you had not RIM ran their interference...

It wouldn't have happened if Nortel execs took their brains out of neutral.

I don't think I would agree with you on this, RIM like other companies were working with Nortel on a creation of a deal. The stalking horse was announced and certain assets were in scope that RIM wanted (or executive right to) and therefore RIM doesn't have the incentive to follow through with the deal they were working on. it is a lack of communication on Nortel's part that caused this.

That's not quite what happened.

Good old trustworthy Nortel was already in discussions with signed non disclosures by RIM for LTE before they downplayed their researching bankruptcy. Bankruptcy changed everything.

When the $675M Siemens stalking horse was announced, RIM claimed they would have gone a billion (with the patents and evidently at least some people)

After they folded. this changed everything. Why? Because Nortel could and stiffed RIM. They finally sold it for what RIM was willing to pay without the patents.

Did they expect RIM to jump back on the bidding table with restrictions, thwarted at every turn from their original negotiations and all sins forgiven contradicting agreements. Who can trust Nortel.

Maximizing value for big business pals and bonuses for upper management and screw the shareholder, employee ...or more recently their largest customer and taxpayers after effecting our markets /economy, etc...

Big money talks, heck with innovation or making money when they can milk bonuses. Big money talks to get the attention at the highest levels. Ex OLG head wants 8 million but need Midol. Even the OSC who are reluctant to put pals in jail furnished unconditional love fining them nothing for the largest fraud in Canada while setting a precedent $75 fine for RIM backdating options! Manley's firm even defends Dunn of all things. Bizarre? Mad hatter nuts? It was endless... Are we to believe the IRS accounting or Nortel's delayed repair of accounting so many years. Every day is disappointingly strange, they were not a normal company. Thank goodness they are gone and better heads prevail in government today to oust tyranny on its ear at every turn with so many out there, not just at Nortel.

LTE people even got screwed... does this come as any surprise given this is Nortel we are talkin here...

Thanks for filling in the missing pieces.. I knew something stank but most of this made not a bit of sense to me until now even as my gut told me that where there is Nortel, there are people that are screwed, Try as they may to pin it on others, ultimately it's on Nortel's watch. It's almost like natural evolution at this point.

"it is a lack of communication on Nortel's part that caused this."
------------------------------------
Agreed

In that case one would expect RIM to pick these employees. Its probably not having to pay severance that resulted in laying these people off.

Yup I agree, but they may hold off for a couple weeks, but again without the full deal RIM was working on, these employees might be less desirable cause they are not getting the exclusive use of the LTE patents.

Nokia might step in then to pick them up.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there is exceptional LTE talent at Nortel that is at loose ends, then one would think their skills would be in demand at Ericsson, NSN, ALU, Motorola and perhaps others. If these people can also document their direct contributions to patents, then perhaps it would be in their best interests to let these companies know of their availability.

Good people can write their own ticket.

Frankly the decision seem to be completely arbitrary in the restructuration. For example the GSM division which I deal with has laid off very few people in the US but laid off 2/3 of the employees in France. Frankly if it was about level of competence they would have done the reverse but it is all about internal politics

Nortel die already.

Whose decision was it to choose these specific 100 people- did they volunteer to be held aside for a RIMjob? Did they understand the implications? Did NT realize they would be vulnerable? NT should be scrambling and this is one more example of inept management and decision-making.
On another subject ~
Your Recognized Leader, Mr. Stephen Harper is meeting with Barack Obama today at the White House. I wish that the Nortel Travesty was being discussed but I have a feeling it will not.

If they did, what would you expect Obama to have done?

Shore up how potential cases of Fraud and Corporate mis-deeds are handled, there should be no leniency or looking the other way. Each case is an example for other companies and deceit should never be rewarded by inaction, there should be serious investigations.

Workers rights - re: Fair Labor Practices, Pensions, Severances, etc.
It seems that these issues are not given priority as they should be.

Stress the importance of doing all you can to keep Important and Meaningful Institutions such as Nortel in existence, for the good and pride of your country. that a company filing CH 11 should show good faith that they are doing everything within their power to re-structure, i.e.- come up with a plan, it should be required and if the CEO/BoD can't seem to be able to do it, put together a Task Force of sorts to assist them.
The hearing, from my recollection was not much more than a show- did anything meaningful come out of it?
Thats all I can think of for now.

I know that you're being tongue-in-cheek but please don't perpetuate the mistaken belief that our politicians are our leaders. They are our servants.

Like Z was your leader.

;>) Hi Less !!!

It was clearly irony.

p.s. ~ "They are our servants." - Has anyone told them that? Or, are they just disobedient? ;<)

It's backwards, when you vote them in... they hear "You're our leader", when you vote them out they hear "I'm not your servant anymore"

Ernst and Young make the decisions.
They are running the company on behalf of the creditors.
The creditors care about value and $$ in the first instance. Bad press and employee relations are a secondary concern, at best.

Decisions are made, or at least authorised, by Ernst & Young. Not Nortel. Nortel went into administration, and they handed over the reigns to others. You can't blame Nortel for everything since that point onwards. E&Y decisions since then are based on pure hard cash only, within the law.

E&Y does not have anything to do with hiring/firing decisions. The remaining Nortel managers continue to swing the axe as part of "cost containment" efforts required for KEIP/KERP bonus payouts for the execs. Among those divisions not yet sold there was a round of layoffs earlier this month, and there will be another in mid-October - both irrespective of any final culling as part of the upcoming sales of the remaining bits & pieces.

The names of individual designers and engineers who get tossed overboard or left behind are of no concern to E&Y - all they care about is generating as much cash as possible during the auctions and conserving cash in between.

Who stays with Nortel or gets laid off is entirely up to the remaining Nortel managers, and who gets a job with the buyers depends on their management teams based on org charts and worker-skills data Nortel mgmt has been collecting for months.

E&Y doesn't care at all who works where or who loses their job as long as the asset sales generate plenty of E&Y billable hours before being successfully concluded, and that enough cash remains available to cover those billable hours.

So while E&Y may be legally in charge, they are not making all the decisions, especially those having to do with personnel, which is what GoProto was asking about...

Now CEOless, the few remaining board members even get a raise to boot!

xpm_guy:

The complete 100 people section was kept on board to be a potential RIM sweetener. Noone said anything about individual names being chosen or picked out for special attention. You can bet your life that E&Y knew that a group of 100 employees were not part of the Erikkson offering and were tied to the LTE possible sale to RIM.

Yes of course who stays and goes is up to Nortel Managers. But the NUMBERS and SECTIONS that stay and go is under E&Y control.

Or do you really think Nortel Managers decided to keep 100 people separate from a deal without E&Y even knowing about it?

I just wonder if these 100 people made their own, informed decision.- perhaps we will hear from them. Isn't the timing of when this occurred vs. E & Y taking complete charge a pertinent issue though?

I am one of these people. Not sure about all 100 people, but I was surprised to find myself in the RIM list. As far as I know, nobody of these people was asked about whether they want to go to RIM or NSN

Thank you for your reply, and I am sorry, perhaps you are one that Nortel was able to scramble to place elsewhere? Based on Mark Evan's post ~
It seems like (you) these 100 people were left off a list of available transfers to the Stalking Horse bid (NSN) as you were sequestered for RIM, but it's also a possibility that Ericsson just snubbed those reserved? Does Ericsson even know that they are not getting 100 of the top LTE R & D people? It would seem that they would want you if you were still available...?

"Does Ericsson even know that they are not getting 100 of the top LTE R & D people?"

Just from my days at Nortel, there's a fair chance these, uhm, "top 100," were sequestered to be orphaned as an understood thing between NT and bidders. There was really nothing about being top 100, whatever that really means, it was just a way to electively push another group of troublesome employees in the bidding off the table.

Nice play, actually.

"...were sequestered to be orphaned as an understood thing between NT and bidders."
--------------------
Oh, I agree - but I think "bidders" includes RIM (pre-auction "understanding" that NT did not follow through on) and perhaps NSN in their Stalking Horse deliberations/ultimate bid, but not necessarily Ericsson. They were probably taken off the table specifically for RIM, pre-NSN and as recent AAN thread states, these 100 may still have a life at RIM. IMO, there's no reason to think they are not in the top group of LTE R&D, where would Mark have gotten that info from-somewhere? Although NT is certainly capable of these shifty tactics, you may be over-reaching to call them troublesome sacrificial sheep.

They always manage to screw the employee one way or the other

Don't you think it was more like RIM who screwed over this group? Once the scope was set by the NSN stalking horse bid, I think E was bound by that. It's nice to say that NT was "scrambling" since it makes them look silly and incompetent, but it could just as easily be said that NT was working hard to help out the people screwed over by the lack of a RIMjob.

It's hard to say. How can a company (RIM) who NT reserved people for in case they ever got the bid be held responsible for the fall-out. The point of the matter was as said above, these 100 people had no idea they were chosen to be held aside, and ultimately they have to shoulder the outcome. Don't you agree that NT's decision to hold them aside just in case, with no back-up plan was not a good decision (for those employees)? How can RIM control what NT does with its employees? I am not sure I understand.

Not much different than the enterprise employees who will be layed off or not be offered employment by Avaya. From Nortel's perspective, they had plans for bidders to take as many employees as possible, and due to circumstances out of their control, not everybody gets a position. At least the management is trying to find placement for as many affected as possible.

WHO was the friggin Nortel Exec that master-minded THAT bonehead move ?!!

MC

All the recently departed with their bankruptcy lawyers.

Z, Lowe and his cronies. all about trying to get as much $.

Umm perhaps the same boneheads that have destroyed the company!?!